Off Topic: Sign this petition if you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less)

"Joelberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:2ae2b4d4-9efc-4c13-8a18-4fa2710d074a@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm sure many of you travel a lot for your home repairs, and that
> means paying through the nose for gas. Former speaker Newt Gingrich
> has a petition going on called "Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less." His
> goal is 3 million votes and he has 1.2 million so far. Don't know
> about you guys, but I think it's beyond ridiculous that we are the
> ONLY nation that doesn't pursue it's resources, while other countries
> are independent, or are becoming so.
>

Too bad it won't make a nickle's difference.

On 6/29/2008 4:19 PM Bob F spake thus:

> "Joelberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:2ae2b4d4-9efc-4c13-8a18-4fa2710d074a@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> I'm sure many of you travel a lot for your home repairs, and that
>> means paying through the nose for gas. Former speaker Newt Gingrich
>> has a petition going on called "Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less." His
>> goal is 3 million votes and he has 1.2 million so far. Don't know
>> about you guys, but I think it's beyond ridiculous that we are the
>> ONLY nation that doesn't pursue it's resources, while other countries
>> are independent, or are becoming so.
>
> Too bad it won't make a nickle's difference.

Not only that, but I'm not about to trade environmental degradation for
a short-term "surge" in oil supply.

The idea is to get *off* oil, not continue to feed our addiction.

Count me out.


--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."

- With apologies to H. L. Mencken

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:26:19 -0700, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote Re Re: Off Topic: Sign this petition if
you're sick of high gas prices (Drill Here. Drill Now. Pay Less):

>Not only that, but I'm not about to trade environmental degradation for
>a short-term "surge" in oil supply.
>
>The idea is to get *off* oil, not continue to feed our addiction.
>
>Count me out.

Well said.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>> Too bad it won't make a nickle's difference.
>
> Not only that, but I'm not about to trade environmental degradation
> for a short-term "surge" in oil supply.
>
> The idea is to get *off* oil, not continue to feed our addiction.
>
> Count me out.

No, the objective is to provide sufficient energy to run this country. It
might be nice if we could run our homes and schools and factories with
sunbeams or wind in the willows, but we can't. Not now, not in five years,
not ever. It is a law of physics and economics that not enough energy falls
on the surface of the earth to meet our current needs.

The earth gets about 700 watts/sq meter of sunlight energy at the equator at
noon with no clouds. Adjusting for latitude, assuming 50% conversion
capability, and ignoring clouds, means that it would take a solar collector
the size of the Los Angeles basin (~1200 sq miles) to provide sufficient
power for just California (55 Gigawatts).

There aren't 1200 square miles of solar collectors on the planet! Consider
the construction and maintenance cost. And that's just for California!

Plus, everybody in Los Angeles would be in the dark, which, when you think
on it, is not such a bad idea...

Nothing comes close to the efficiency of oil (and gas) in providing therms,
BTUs, kwhs, or any other measure of stored energy. We know how to get it,
transport it, convert it, and distribute the result. The infrastructure is
there, the ability is there, the oil is even there. All that is lacking is
political will.

We no more have an "addiction" to oil than we have an "addiction" to food.
It is necessary for our well being and our way of life.

On 6/29/2008 6:27 PM HeyBub spake thus:

> Nothing comes close to the efficiency of oil (and gas) in providing therms,
> BTUs, kwhs, or any other measure of stored energy. We know how to get it,
> transport it, convert it, and distribute the result. The infrastructure is
> there, the ability is there, the oil is even there. All that is lacking is
> political will.

Well, I said we need to get off oil; I said nothing about gas, which is
another critter altogether.

For instance, I'm surprised I've heard nothing about what used to be
called "Gobar gas" back in the 1970s. This is methane, recovered in
India from cowshit. There are lots of things that produce methane which,
as you said, is an excellent source of BTUs, kwhs, etc. Like all
landfills. So we already know how to replace a good chunk of our oil
with something homegrown (remember that we also know how to run
infernal-combustion vehicles on methane).

Article here:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Renewable-Energy/1971-11-01/Gobar-Gas.aspx

> We no more have an "addiction" to oil than we have an "addiction" to food.
> It is necessary for our well being and our way of life.

We *do* have an addiction to oil, because we have an addiction to
energy. Do we really "need" all the energy we use/waste? As you yourself
said, maybe it's not such a bad thing if LA goes dark ...


--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."

- With apologies to H. L. Mencken

clipped

>
>Nothing comes close to the efficiency of oil (and gas) in providing therms,
>BTUs, kwhs, or any other measure of stored energy. We know how to get it,
>transport it, convert it, and distribute the result. The infrastructure is
>there, the ability is there, the oil is even there. All that is lacking is
>political will.
>
>We no more have an "addiction" to oil than we have an "addiction" to food.
>It is necessary for our well being and our way of life.
>
>
>
>
With all the hew and cry about the price of oil, I rarely hear the word
"conserve". We cut way back
on energy usage in the early '80's. We've been talking about the price
of oil for forty years, knowing
this day was coming. Americans are living like pigs - consuming like
there is no tomorrow. $4 is
horrible price to pay for gasoline, but folks buy a $2 bottle of water
and $4 cup of coffee, fill the planet
with disposables (much from oil) and think we can drill our way out of
the situation. We think in the
moment, with absolutely no thought about 50 years from now or what will
be available to our grand-
children.

With sufficient support, solar power can certainly be made economical
and not be a burden on land
use. Heck, if we had covered parking for some of the miles and miles of
asphalt we could kill two
birds with one stone - retain less heat on the ground, lessen damage to
autos, and use the structure
to capture solar energy.

We should have been spending the past forty years building railroads and
other ground transport
systems that are far more efficient than semi's and 747's.

Folks are in a weaker condition here because of debt, too, which has
weakened our economy
horribly. Can't get rid of home equity fast enough - gotta have that
big screen TV, give junior
a new car so's he can get fat, get drunk and go die some Sat. nite
because "that's what every-
body is doing". The price of gasoline is the kick in the ass we've
needed for a long time. It's gonna hurt.