Re: Best effect to ballsify thin synth sounds?

On Jul 5, 7:11 am, Keoki <[email protected]> wrote:
> The DX7-II-based unison detune trick which I mentioned did just that.
> One could take what sounded like an anemic DX harpsichord "plinkk"
> patch with a long release, turn unison detune on, and bingo - it would
> turn into a heavy-metal-band-in-a-stadium-like-guitars-bass-cymbal-
> snare hit, a huge "boinggg!". (With an extra whoosh on the attack too,
> if OscSync was on.) The original harpsichord timbre would be totally
> diluted, metamorphosed, colored, obliterated. Yet, all that did this
> was just a quadrupling of the sound with each copy slightly detuned.
> This is the kind of effect I'm after. So, if I understood Will
> correctly, a Manley Massive Passive box would do something like this?

The way you record your synth makes a big difference. If you
optimize that, your existing sounds will have a lot more impact.
Transformers and inductors can add a lot of what people perceive as
"Vintage" character to your sounds. You get harmonics, ringing,
overshoot, a whole lot of "metal" into the sound. Conversely a
decent sound can be reduced to mosquito status if your synth doesn't
like seeing the input it's feeding for one reason or another. Cheap
DI's or no DI's at all but just the cheap inputs on your DAW interface
are culprits too. Good DI's and micpres cost money, and there is a
reason for that.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

On Jul 7, 7:48 pm, WillStG <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Transformers and inductors can add a lot of what people perceive as
> "Vintage" character to your sounds.  You get harmonics, ringing,
> overshoot, a whole lot of "metal" into the sound.   Conversely a
> decent sound can be reduced to mosquito status if your synth doesn't
> like seeing the input it's feeding for one reason or another.  

Hello Will,

I record my keyboard tracks into my G5 via an M-Audio Delta 2496 card.
I could get my hands on a giant Peavey Mark 8 console (claimed to be
the smaller brother of their Media Matrix products) locally for the
cost of a better plugin synth. Would it add a noticeable difference to
thin synth sounds? Or is a rack space Focusrite ISA430 or a Neve
preamp still a better way to deal with the preamp question. (Which is
a different matter from my original synth ballsifying effect ideas,
but a valid issue to tackle as well.)

On Jul 10, 11:58 am, Keoki <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello Will,
>
> I record my keyboard tracks into my G5 via an M-Audio Delta 2496 card.
> I could get my hands on a giant Peavey Mark 8 console (claimed to be
> the smaller brother of their Media Matrix products) locally for the
> cost of a better plugin synth. Would it add a noticeable difference to
> thin synth sounds? Or is a rack space Focusrite ISA430 or a Neve
> preamp still a better way to deal with the preamp question. (Which is
> a different matter from my original synth ballsifying effect ideas,
> but a valid issue to tackle as well.)

I've not used a Mark 8 Peavey, but the micpres are electronically
balanced (which is *not* fattening), it does have transformers on the
mix buss but I have no idea how they sound. Consoles that have big
fat transformers on the inputs and/or outputs are what I'm generally
talking about, also certain Op Amps have euphonic qualities to them,
consoles built like that tend to get parted out and sold module by
module for racking up at end of life. Transformers, inductors,
basically it's copper wire wrapped around one or more bobbins in
various configurations. And like guitar pickups, they all have their
own character.

Stuff like vintage Neve line or mic modules, Telefunken/Sitral/EAB/
TAB line or mic modules, some Calrec strips or even older Canadian
Ward Beck stuff.. Or some modern Manley stuff, John Hardy M2's with
the Jensen transformer option, API and the OSI clones thereof, Purple
Audio gear, Pendulum, there are lots of choices out there.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:51:34 -0700 (PDT), Mike Rivers
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It doesn't matter if
>the musician who played the track is on tour in Greenland and won't be
>back for two more years. Nobody will every know he was replaced.

What's he doing, 16 weeks in each venue? :-)

"Keoki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1dfb9d71-e515-4b95-8962-e10ecdc62761@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Is there some sort of super-strong chorus-delay-flanger-sustainer unit
> or plugin specially created to turn a thin synth "plinkk" into a
> giant, stadium-filling "bronnggg!"?

There is. It's called a Leslie :)

Serious. Leslie your synth. You'll be amazed.

Bm

On Jul 7, 10:17 am, "Badmuts" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Keoki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > Is there some sort of super-strong chorus-delay-flanger-sustainer unit
> > or plugin specially created to turn a thin synth "plinkk" into a
> > giant, stadium-filling "bronnggg!"?
>
> There is. It's called a Leslie :)
>
> Serious. Leslie your synth. You'll be amazed.

BM, this is an awesome idea. Will definitely try.
Do you do it with a real Leslie, or do you use a Leslie emulator of
some kind?

Run it through a Fender Champ in a good-sounding room. Mike the room with a
good microphone run through a good preamp. Enjoy.

For a different effect, substitute a Fender Twin.

Peace,
Paul

On 2008-07-10 [email protected] said:
>Run it through a Fender Champ in a good-sounding room. Mike the
>room with a good microphone run through a good preamp. Enjoy.
>For a different effect, substitute a Fender Twin.
OR even just a good keyboard amp. SOrt of what I suggested
to him the other day, but don't think he has good room or
good preamp.
LEast it sounds that way.

LEslies are cool too as another poster suggests, and if
doing organ tracks a must. NO I don't like the simulators,
I like the real deal.



Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

On Jul 10, 6:14 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> On 2008-07-10 [email protected] said:
>    >Run it through a Fender Champ in a good-sounding room. Mike the
>    >room with a good microphone run through a good preamp. Enjoy.
>    >For a different effect, substitute a Fender Twin.
> OR even just a good keyboard amp.  SOrt of what I suggested
> to him the other day, but don't think he has good room or
> good preamp.
> LEast it sounds that way.
>
> LEslies are cool too as another poster suggests, and if
> doing organ tracks a must.  NO I don't like the simulators,
> I like the real deal.

Using a Leslie might end up being more of a distraction.
You can get lost for hours in that sound.
Especially if you sit up close. It tends to suck you in.
Heck, you could spend all day just trying to mic the thing in stereo.

rd

On Jul 10, 12:14 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> don't think he has good room or
> good preamp.
> LEast it sounds that way.

Well, the rooms have fine reverb characteristics per se. Unfortunately
we also have a bunch of neighbors with lots of kids and zero
civilizing ability. Tour buses that sound louder from 60 ft than the
average TV set in the room. Harley monkeys whizzing by every 3 hours
on average presuming someone may *want* to hear how their bikes sound.
(Hint: no). The back side of an upscale restaurant next door where
drunk employees compete in out-shouting each other and tinpot football
on concrete. So yeah, I'm pretty much resigned to working with line-
level sources.

On 2008-07-10 [email protected] said:
>> don't think he has good room or
>> good preamp.
>> LEast it sounds that way.
>Well, the rooms have fine reverb characteristics per se.
>Unfortunately we also have a bunch of neighbors with lots of kids
>and zero civilizing ability. Tour buses that sound louder from 60
>ft than the average TV set in the room. Harley monkeys whizzing by
>every 3 hours on average presuming someone may *want* to hear how
>their bikes sound. (Hint: no). The back side of an upscale
>restaurant next door where drunk employees compete in out-shouting
>each other and tinpot football on concrete. So yeah, I'm pretty
>much resigned to working with line- level sources.

AW bummer. FIgured it might be something like that. THe
perils of trying to do this in an urban environment <g>.




Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider

On 2008-07-10 [email protected] said:
>> LEslies are cool too as another poster suggests, and if
>> doing organ tracks a must. ˙NO I don't like the simulators,
>> I like the real deal.
>Using a Leslie might end up being more of a distraction.
>You can get lost for hours in that sound.
>Especially if you sit up close. It tends to suck you in.
>Heck, you could spend all day just trying to mic the thing in
>stereo.
OH yah!!! Love it with a Hammond, even the new combo
hammonds.
USed to put an re20 or SEnn 421 on the bottom, did various
condensers on the top and got a great LEslie sound. Love
'em.
YOu're right, it sucks you in. Live couldn't be better!!!
BIg ballsy b3 and a 147. I'm only 5 3 and about 130 lbs but
man I like rockin' one o' them big boys. MIss mine.




Richard webb,
replace anything before at with elspider