Beyer M130/M160 Dual Ribbon Config?

Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:
>The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the ribbons
>configured? Thanks.

There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the acoustical
loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the ribbons are corrugated
in both vertical and horizontal directions (like RCAs) the damping is already
a little odd. It also means the magnet assembly needs to create constant
flux over more than twice the area that it would otherwise have to.

It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:
> >The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
> >ribbons configured? Thanks.
>
> There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
> acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
> ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
> RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
> assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
> it would otherwise have to.
>
> It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
> Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
> --scott

Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.

I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?

Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
given the attractively linear response.

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> > Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
> > >ribbons configured? Thanks.
> >
> > There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
> > acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
> > ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
> > RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
> > assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
> > it would otherwise have to.
> >
> > It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
> > Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
> > --scott
>
> Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.
>
> I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
> corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?
>
> Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
> given the attractively linear response.

Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
needs a capable preamp.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:54:53 -0400, hank alrich wrote
(in article <1iju5dy.gxopv011qeabgN%walkinay@nv.net>):

> Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>> Roy W. Rising <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> The Beyer M130 and M160 mics are "Dual Ribbon" types. How are the
>>>> ribbons configured? Thanks.
>>>
>>> There is a second ribbon _behind_ the first one. This changes the
>>> acoustical loading and damping of the front ribbon, but because the
>>> ribbons are corrugated in both vertical and horizontal directions (like
>>> RCAs) the damping is already a little odd. It also means the magnet
>>> assembly needs to create constant flux over more than twice the area that
>>> it would otherwise have to.
>>>
>>> It's totally different than the crappy Chinese mikes that take two Wes
>>> Dooley motors and fuse them side-by-side.
>>> --scott
>>
>> Thanks, Scott. That's about what I'd imagined.
>>
>> I've examined an RCA 77DX ribbon replaced by ENAK, only vertical
>> corrugations are evident. Can you enlarge on the horizontal aspect?
>>
>> Creating constant flux over the larger area does not seem to be a problem,
>> given the attractively linear response.
>
> Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
> needs a capable preamp.


To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the TRP.

Wes did a nice job on that preamp.

Regards,

Ty Ford





--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

"Ty Ford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:w7SdnRgoqNTdYejVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
> > needs a capable preamp.
>
>
> To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
> what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the
TRP.
>
> Wes did a nice job on that preamp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the preamp was designed by Fred
Forssell, working under contract to AEA. Whomever, it's a nice job for sure.

Peace,
Paul

Paul Stamler <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Ty Ford" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:w7SdnRgoqNTdYejVnZ2dnUVZ_oHinZ2d@comcast.com...
>> > Some folks consider their low sensitivity a "problem". It just means one
>> > needs a capable preamp.
>>
>>
>> To which I will add, get an AEA TRP preamp from Wes Dooley. In addition to
>> what I hear on the R84, I'm hearing more from my M160 and 77DX with the
>TRP.
>>
>> Wes did a nice job on that preamp.
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the preamp was designed by Fred
>Forssell, working under contract to AEA. Whomever, it's a nice job for sure.

It is indeed. And the concept of high-Z loading of ribbon mikes is actually
due to Jon Sank. But it took Wes Dooley to redescover it and to get Fred
Forssell to design a box for him.

It really is a nice job. It's like having a completely different set of
microphones.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Paul Stamler <[email protected]> wrote:
[snip]
> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the preamp was designed by Fred
> >Forssell, working under contract to AEA. Whomever, it's a nice job for
> >sure.
>
> It is indeed. And the concept of high-Z loading of ribbon mikes is
> actually due to Jon Sank. But it took Wes Dooley to redescover it and to
> get Fred Forssell to design a box for him.
>
> It really is a nice job. It's like having a completely different set of
> microphones.
> --scott

The idea of non-loading ribbon mics predates Jon Sank's tour with RCA
beginning in 1960. The gents who designed and built TV and Radio audio
facilities in the 1940s and 1950s held to the rule that the *actual* mic
pre input impedance must be 2000 ohms or greater, to avoid loading ribbon
mics. Tube preamps fed the secondary of the input transformer directly to
the grid of the first stage, which was very high impedance.

The Dooley TRPs use new technology to deliver an input impedance greater
than 30K ohms. No wonder ribbon mics love them!

--
~
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"