Can Latency Be Eliminated?

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d334d7a2-e735-49b5-a94c-9c91d9102324@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording on home
> computers or is it a fact of life? I'm plugging my bass into an Mbox
> and running it into Garage Band on a pretty speedy MacPro. The
> latency's not terrible, perhaps a quarter of a second or so, but I'm
> afraid regular practice through this setup will have an effect on my
> playing, make me play ahead of the beat.
>
> I've heard ProTools does a pretty good job of eliminating latency, but
> is it any better than Garage Band in this regard?
>
> -Fleemo
>
> P.S. ProTools 7.4.2, which is compatible with the latest Mac OS
> (10.5.3) came out today. Finally! :D

You want an audio interface that has a built-in digital mixer. You will
configure it to mix your monitor feed in the interface, not the DAW program.
You'll be able to hear yourself against a recorded track, while laying down
another. Effects are out of the question unless you choose an interface
with built-in effects, such as a MOTU. I have no personal experience with
them.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:d334d7a2-e735-49b5-a94c-9c91d9102324@f36g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording on home
> computers or is it a fact of life? I'm plugging my bass into an Mbox
> and running it into Garage Band on a pretty speedy MacPro. The
> latency's not terrible, perhaps a quarter of a second or so

That's an awful lot of latency. Somewhere between 3 and 5 milliseconds
should be feasible, and that shouldn't give you too much trouble playing
along.
(but still i have musicians complaining about not being able to get into the
groove when doing this).

On Jun 20, 1:43 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording on home
> computers or is it a fact of life?

It's a fact of life with anything digital, not just home computers.

> I'm plugging my bass into an Mbox
> and running it into Garage Band on a pretty speedy MacPro. The
> latency's not terrible, perhaps a quarter of a second or so

That's terrible! But what latency are you talking about? The time
between when you play a note and when you hear it in the speakers? If
so, then play through an amp and turn off the computer's speakers when
playing/practicing.

Or can you hear your bass OK when playing, but a track that you record
comes out late when you play back a mix of the bass track and whatever
tracks you were playing to?

If this is the case you need to move the bass track so that it lines
up properly. I don't know Garage Band, but some DAW programs
automatically do this when the track is recorded. The program runs a
little test to measure the delay and remembers how much to offset the
track.

On Jun 19, 11:43 pm, [email protected] wrote:
> Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording on home
> computers or is it a fact of life? I'm plugging my bass into an Mbox
> and running it into Garage Band on a pretty speedy MacPro. The
> latency's not terrible, perhaps a quarter of a second or so, but I'm
> afraid regular practice through this setup will have an effect on my
> playing, make me play ahead of the beat.
>
> I've heard ProTools does a pretty good job of eliminating latency, but
> is it any better than Garage Band in this regard?
>
> -Fleemo


A quarter of a second is unusable. That's enough to make a stutter
inducer. Just try talking through a digital delay at 250 ms,
monitoring on headphones with only the delay signal being monitored.

The low latencey mode on ProTools just bypasses all the effects and eq
to allow the fastest signal processing.

Latency is one reason that I track on an Alesis HD24 and mix using
ProTools.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 06:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I've heard ProTools does a pretty good job of eliminating latency, but
>> is it any better than Garage Band in this regard?
>>
>> -Fleemo
>
>
>A quarter of a second is unusable. That's enough to make a stutter
>inducer. Just try talking through a digital delay at 250 ms,
>monitoring on headphones with only the delay signal being monitored.
>
>The low latencey mode on ProTools just bypasses all the effects and eq
>to allow the fastest signal processing.
>
>Latency is one reason that I track on an Alesis HD24 and mix using
>ProTools.

Forget the 1/4 second - that's just because he hasn't set upproperly.
(Or is an M-box on a Mac THAT bad? Surely not?).

He should be experiencing just a few ms latency effect. If that is a
problem, monitor externally. Buying a whole additional recording
system to do it seems overkill. All you need is a decent mixing
board.

fleemo wrote:
<< Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording
on home computers or is it a fact of life? I'm plugging my
bass into an Mbox and running it into Garage Band on a
pretty speedy MacPro. The latency's not terrible, perhaps a
quarter of a second or so, but I'm afraid regular practice
through this setup will have an effect on my playing, make
me play ahead of the beat.
I've heard ProTools does a pretty good job of eliminating
latency, but is it any better than Garage Band in this regard?

As Bob Morein replied in another posting, the latency can be
eliminated by using an interface that incorporates a
"digital mixer" application that comes with certain boxes.

I'd suggest picking up a used Presonus Firebox - ebay is a
good source. It uses the CORE audio drivers built into OS X,
so it will be recognized immediately without additional
drivers, and currently-updated software is available from
Presonus. You should be able to find one very affordable.
Takes about 5 minutes to get it set up and working with
GarageBand, and, no latency while recording...

- John

On Jun 20, 1:43 am, [email protected] wrote:
> Is there a way to eliminate latency in digital recording on home
> computers or is it a fact of life?  I'm plugging my bass into an Mbox
> and running it into Garage Band on a pretty speedy MacPro.  The
> latency's not terrible, perhaps a quarter of a second or so, but I'm
> afraid regular practice through this setup will have an effect on my
> playing, make me play ahead of the beat.
>
> I've heard ProTools does a pretty good job of eliminating latency, but
> is it any better than Garage Band in this regard?
>
> -Fleemo
>
> P.S. ProTools 7.4.2, which is compatible with the latest Mac OS
> (10.5.3) came out today.  Finally!  :D

The original MBox has a knob to balance the levels between an input
source (your bass) with playback levels (your recorded tracks) -
second knob from the bottom. When you are tracking, mute the channel
you are recording to in your computer, and turn the knob until you
hear a decent balance between your bass and the other tracks. You may
need to kick up the level of the bass before the input. When you are
punching in doing a "fix" on a bass track, assign the input the bass
is plugged into to a new track, and the input you are NOT using to the
track you are punching in on. Autopunch them both in. That way you
can can hear your bass without latency, and hear the track you are
punching into at the same time, with silence at your input on the
original track.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away... " Tom Waits