Echo Gina 3G : Obsolete, or (still) a solid recommendation?

On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:46:29 -0400, "MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote:

>Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
>(PCI).
>
>I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
>latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance, Echo
>seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with the
>impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I stand to
>gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to Firewire-based models?
>
>Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
>altogether?
>
>(For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
>goes up to 6.)
>


What latency are you achieving with your Gina? Do you have a
particular reason for chasing latency to the lowest possible figure?

PCI cards are obsolete in so much as computer motherboards are now
moving toward PCIe slots. Currently you can still get both, but PCI
will soon go the way of ISA. But a card such as your Gina is quite
mature technology and there's no point in throwing it out until you
move to a coputer that it won't fit into.

Echo is an excellent company, but PCI will vanish from motherboards in
another year or two. So they have no choice.

PCI is better than Firewire. That said, Firewire is classified as an
isochronous interface, which means it's supposed to deliver the data within
a certain period of time. DAW software typically has an adjustment to
compensate for latency. So if you're having a problem, I would guess that
your latency varies, which probably means you need more computer power, or
you need to look at your power management scheme. I found that latency can
actually be worse with the newer variable speed processors unless power
management is configured to run the processor full speed all the time.

Does this jog any thoughts? It's an interesting problem, and I'd like to
hear more details.

Bob Morein
(310) 237-6511

"MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:g0ib1r$8h7$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
> (PCI).
>
> I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
> latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance,
> Echo seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with
> the impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I
> stand to gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to
> Firewire-based models?
>
> Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
> altogether?
>
> (For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
> goes up to 6.)
>

Guess not. ;-)

"MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:g0ib1r$8h7$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
> (PCI).
>
> I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
> latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance,
> Echo seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with
> the impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I
> stand to gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to
> Firewire-based models?
>
> Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
> altogether?
>
> (For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
> goes up to 6.)

Hi,

If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.

Dean

On May 15, 4:46 pm, "MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Been using Echo cards my whole mixing life... current model is the Gina G3
> (PCI).
>
> I was simply wondering if another card out there would perform better
> latency-wise, with regards to Sonar 7 tracking & mixing. For instance, Echo
> seems to be pushing its Firewire models centerstage, leaving you with the
> impression that the PCI models are outdated. Are they, though? Do I stand to
> gain anything with regards to latency if I switch to Firewire-based models?
>
> Or, more drastically, is Echo a company you'd recommend I leave behind
> altogether?
>
> (For what it's worth, I don't need multiple outputs, even though the Gina
> goes up to 6.)

What will PCI be dropped in favor of? I thought PCI was the most direct (and
hence, fastest response) connection a sound device could have with a
motherboard. Is that assumption wrong?

"drichard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:85b38c9f-ae7f-47f6-8620-efdf4dd599f7@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Hi,

If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.

Dean

Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

Dean

On Jun 20, 12:06 pm, "MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> What will PCI be dropped in favor of? I thought PCI was the most direct (and
> hence, fastest response) connection a sound device could have with a
> motherboard. Is that assumption wrong?
>
> "drichard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:85b38c9f-ae7f-47f6-8620-efdf4dd599f7@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> Hi,
>
> If you already have one, and as long as your motherboard supports PCI,
> the 3G is fine. Just realize that as the industry goes forward PCI is
> going to fade away, though I'm not convinced it will as quickly as
> some suggest. Eventually you will need something else. But I have
> several PCI cards, and I'm not giving up on them for quite a while.
>
> Dean

But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

"drichard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:76752f4c-f6a2-4c4e-bcf4-d77303fab422@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Hi,

There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.

PCI or possibly pci-E (if you can find one)



"MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:g3onmd$uei$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most
> likely to provide the fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)
>
> "drichard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:76752f4c-f6a2-4c4e-bcf4-d77303fab422@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
>
> There is a new standard, PCIe, which seems poised to take over for
> most purposes. But for audio interfaces, firewire and USB have become
> prevalent, which I don't consider good news. I hope that there is
> enough demand that PCIe audio interfaces will start to appear.
>

On Jun 23, 12:47 pm, "MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote:
> But regardless of which is becoming more popular or not, at equal quality
> specs, which of PCI, PCIe, Firewire or USB is most likely to provide the
> fastest response? (ie, lowest latency)

It'll be either the PCI or PCIe. Using Firewire or USB (or lightpipe
for that
matter) you are adding another "layer". The data path still has to
navigate
accross the main PCI bus.

I suspect that the reason for the newer PCIe is more cost driven with
a
smaller/cheaper edgecard connector than it is performance. Although
any newer product can be expected to have more refined performance.

I really don't care for USB audio for more than 2 channels.
I've got a mix of RME lightpipe stuff and an Echo Mia for 2 channel
analog and sp/dif.

I wouldn't worry too much yet about PCI and lightpipe going away.
The full-sized PCI slots will continue to be offered for "legacy"
cards.
Keeping up with the bleeding edge is a job for computer geeks, not
audio guys who need to pay more attention to what's outside the box.

rd