MADI - Will It Catch On

Professional audio recording and studio engineering, post #44,230
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 HKC
 2008-06-20 10:49:53
 MADI - Will It Catch On
I will upgrade my entire system at some point during the next year. I may
wait until the next Apple OS (Snow Leopard) comes which is promised around
this time next year.
Anyway I currently have 24 I/O (24bit, 48 KHz) that use the ADAT interface
but I consider starting to record in 96 KHz to reduce latency, and people
tell me that many plugins sound better when used with the higher bandwidth.
The problem is that I need 24 I/Os and there is no ADAT interface that has
24 I/Os in 96 KHz.
It's not an option to have two ie RME Raydat cards because I still want to
keep my UAD1 and my Powercore so the Mac PCI-e slots are already spoken for.
The MADI standard has a lot to offer on that account but at the moment it
seems that only RME embraces it and it's not the standard (yet) that it set
out to be.
To tell the truth I rarely use more than 16 I/Os so a possible solution
would be to buy a Raydat and two RME ADI 8QS, keep 8 of my old converters
and record in 44.1 when I need more than 16 I/Os.
My main worry is will the lightpipe interface die soon enough to justify a
MADI solution.

PS I know a lot can happen within the next year but I have a lot of catching
up to do.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Romeo Rondeau
 2008-06-20 05:15:33
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
HKC wrote:
> I will upgrade my entire system at some point during the next year. I may
> wait until the next Apple OS (Snow Leopard) comes which is promised around
> this time next year.
> Anyway I currently have 24 I/O (24bit, 48 KHz) that use the ADAT interface
> but I consider starting to record in 96 KHz to reduce latency, and people
> tell me that many plugins sound better when used with the higher bandwidth.
> The problem is that I need 24 I/Os and there is no ADAT interface that has
> 24 I/Os in 96 KHz.
> It's not an option to have two ie RME Raydat cards because I still want to
> keep my UAD1 and my Powercore so the Mac PCI-e slots are already spoken for.
> The MADI standard has a lot to offer on that account but at the moment it
> seems that only RME embraces it and it's not the standard (yet) that it set
> out to be.
> To tell the truth I rarely use more than 16 I/Os so a possible solution
> would be to buy a Raydat and two RME ADI 8QS, keep 8 of my old converters
> and record in 44.1 when I need more than 16 I/Os.
> My main worry is will the lightpipe interface die soon enough to justify a
> MADI solution.
>
> PS I know a lot can happen within the next year but I have a lot of catching
> up to do.

The lightpipe interface won't die until there's something to replace it.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Badmuts
 2008-06-20 12:21:26
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
"HKC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:485b6f22$0$56787$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
> Anyway I currently have 24 I/O (24bit, 48 KHz) that use the ADAT interface
> but I consider starting to record in 96 KHz to reduce latency

Sample rate and latency are not related to each other!
In fact, on some systems latency might go up when higher sample rates are
used.

> and people
> tell me that many plugins sound better when used with the higher
bandwidth.

Everything sounds better with the higher bandwidth (unless the sound sucks
to begin with ;)

> The problem is that I need 24 I/Os and there is no ADAT interface that has
> 24 I/Os in 96 KHz.

2 interfaces with 3 (or even 4) adat inputs with s-mux support should do it.

> The MADI standard has a lot to offer on that account but at the moment it
> seems that only RME embraces it and it's not the standard (yet) that it
set
> out to be.

There was a lot of MADI gear at the latest AES expo in Amsterdam. Yamaha
also brought MADI cards for all their high-end gear.

> To tell the truth I rarely use more than 16 I/Os so a possible solution
> would be to buy a Raydat and two RME ADI 8QS, keep 8 of my old converters
> and record in 44.1 when I need more than 16 I/Os.
> My main worry is will the lightpipe interface die soon enough to justify
a
> MADI solution.

Lightpipe is not yet dead.

Personally I've given up on keeping up with current technology for the
studio. I want stuff that just works. I don't really care which plugs,
protocols or standards are used as long as i can interconnect anything
without too much trouble or being limited in gear choice. At this point in
time lightpipe still does it for me.
Anyway, that's just one person's opinion.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 HKC
 2008-06-20 13:07:09
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
"Badmuts" wrote:
Personally I've given up on keeping up with current technology for the
studio


That's pretty much what I meant when I said I had some catching up to do. I
haven't really been following the development in these areas since I bought
my current system but when I have to upgrade I may as well get the best
deal.
My studio is a fulltime one so stability is an absolute must......that whole
48 vrs 96 vrs 192 doesn't matter so much to me but occasionally my clients
ask what I use and I would like to have an answer they would like to hear
(but also one that doesn't mean that I would have to raise my rate).

PS I don't think there's much of a difference between 48 and 96 KHz, maybe
it's my ears but I do think that 16 bit vrs 24 bit was sonically a much more
important step than increasing the bandwidth.
My main interest is in getting better latency and (if so) better performance
from my plugins. The arguments I've heard on the latter issue is not so much
in terms of actual KHz, more of smoother performance (whatever that means).
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Romeo Rondeau
 2008-06-20 07:39:45
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
Badmuts wrote:
> "HKC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:485b6f22$0$56787$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>> Anyway I currently have 24 I/O (24bit, 48 KHz) that use the ADAT interface
>> but I consider starting to record in 96 KHz to reduce latency
>
> Sample rate and latency are not related to each other!
> In fact, on some systems latency might go up when higher sample rates are
> used.

They most definitely are related to each other! Your buffer will empty
twice as fast at 96k as it will at 48k. You don't have to take my word
for it, change the samplerate on your interface and watch the latency
change.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Scott Dorsey
 2008-06-20 08:43:40
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
HKC <[email protected]> wrote:
>My main worry is will the lightpipe interface die soon enough to justify a
>MADI solution.

MADI has been around for ages, and predates the lightpipe format, the ADAT,
and the whole ADAT revolution. It just works, and it's solid. For a long
time, it seemed to be dying out, but now it seems to be coming back.

>PS I know a lot can happen within the next year but I have a lot of catching
>up to do.

I don't see lightpipe or MADI going away any time soon, although I could
see T-DIF going away.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 kooz
 2008-06-20 09:22:39
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
On Jun 20, 8:43 am, [email protected] (Scott Dorsey) wrote
> I don't see lightpipe or MADI going away any time soon, although I could
> see T-DIF going away.
> --scott
> --
>

Yup. AES will always be there too, in one flavour or another.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 WillStG
 2008-06-20 11:45:56
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
On Jun 20, 4:49 am, "HKC" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The MADI standard has a lot to offer on that account but at the moment it
> seems that only RME embraces it and it's not the standard (yet) that it set
> out to be.

There are more companies than RME - but the RME HDSP MADI was just
elegant and relatively inexpensive. There are a lot of ways to
interface MADI with other formats too. Here is a listing of some
companies and their MADI offerings.

http://www.innovativemusic.com.au/MADI.htm

And 64 ins/ 64 channels / 64 outs on the new RME HDSPe MADI cardbus/
breakout box combo is a bit interesting.

http://www.innovativemusic.com.au/rme_hdspe_MADIface.htm

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Jim Weld
 2008-06-20 14:58:18
 Re: MADI - Will It Catch On
"HKC" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:485b6f22$0$56787$edfadb0f@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
> I will upgrade my entire system at some point during the next
year. I may
> wait until the next Apple OS (Snow Leopard) comes which is
promised around
> this time next year.
> Anyway I currently have 24 I/O (24bit, 48 KHz) that use the
ADAT interface
> but I consider starting to record in 96 KHz to reduce latency,
and people
> tell me that many plugins sound better when used with the
higher bandwidth.
> The problem is that I need 24 I/Os and there is no ADAT
interface that has
> 24 I/Os in 96 KHz.
> It's not an option to have two ie RME Raydat cards because I
still want to
> keep my UAD1 and my Powercore so the Mac PCI-e slots are
already spoken for.
> The MADI standard has a lot to offer on that account but at the
moment it
> seems that only RME embraces it and it's not the standard (yet)
that it set
> out to be.
> To tell the truth I rarely use more than 16 I/Os so a possible
solution
> would be to buy a Raydat and two RME ADI 8QS, keep 8 of my old
converters
> and record in 44.1 when I need more than 16 I/Os.
> My main worry is will the lightpipe interface die soon enough
to justify a
> MADI solution.
>
> PS I know a lot can happen within the next year but I have a
lot of catching
> up to do.
>
>
HKC:

MADI isn't new, as Scott said. It's been a standard used by
Euphonix, Sony, SSL, and Soundscape. You might want to look into
what you can do with the SSL X-logic Alpha Link MADI boxes. You
can use them to route MADI, convert to AES or MADI, Convert From
AES or MADI to analogue, etc.or straight to Pro Tools. I'm about
to use optical MADI for live recording, and it will be able to
handle all my sends and returns to the stage on a zip-cord like
plastic network type cable. I have a MADI card for my Pyramix
rig, and it is even capable of passing DSD signals, as well as
the wordclock, as far as I know. Do look into it...it may be an
option for you. Check out:
http://www.solid-state-logic.com/post/Xlogic%20Alpha-Link/index.asp

It's actually cheaper to buy their converters with MADI than to
add MADI to an existing converter setup using RME stuff.

Jim Weld