N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

MSchmidt
-Don Pearce
--Laurence Payne
---Don Pearce
---Jos Geluk
-Jenn
--Laurence Payne
---Jenn

---hank alrich
----Laurence Payne
-----hank alrich

Author:
Date:
Subject:

MSchmidt
2008-07-07 14:11:08
N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

For you arrangers out there...

I'm having a hard time finding the right key for a specific song I'm working
on... the first half is smoother than the second. The second requires a
louder voice to follow the instrumentation as the song is building to a
climax. In this case, going louder means going higher in pitch (the voice
sounds silly if shouted at its original pitch).

Going a full octave higher halfway through the song would work, since it
wouldn't require any key change at all... except those two extremes are a
bit too far apart. The singer can sing them, but his voice is being strained
in doing so.

Ideally, there would be a key change halfway through the song. More
precisely, between the 1st and 2nd verses.

Now, I know this has been done countless times before, even if the only
example that comes immediately to mind is the spontaneous key change in the
middle of the last chorus in Bon Jovi's Livin On A Prayer.

I don't know how many semis that key change is, but I was wondering if there
was any type of "standard" out there for this sort of thing. I realize it
all depends on the song and should be decided on a case by case basis that
can really only be determined by listening to it, but in a broader sense, is
there somekind of unwritten and very general rule about raising a song by X
semis halfway through it to give it a little extra punch? If so, X = ?

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Don Pearce
2008-07-07 19:58:20
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

MSchmidt wrote:
> For you arrangers out there...
>
> I'm having a hard time finding the right key for a specific song I'm working
> on... the first half is smoother than the second. The second requires a
> louder voice to follow the instrumentation as the song is building to a
> climax. In this case, going louder means going higher in pitch (the voice
> sounds silly if shouted at its original pitch).
>
> Going a full octave higher halfway through the song would work, since it
> wouldn't require any key change at all... except those two extremes are a
> bit too far apart. The singer can sing them, but his voice is being strained
> in doing so.
>
> Ideally, there would be a key change halfway through the song. More
> precisely, between the 1st and 2nd verses.
>
> Now, I know this has been done countless times before, even if the only
> example that comes immediately to mind is the spontaneous key change in the
> middle of the last chorus in Bon Jovi's Livin On A Prayer.
>
> I don't know how many semis that key change is, but I was wondering if there
> was any type of "standard" out there for this sort of thing. I realize it
> all depends on the song and should be decided on a case by case basis that
> can really only be determined by listening to it, but in a broader sense, is
> there somekind of unwritten and very general rule about raising a song by X
> semis halfway through it to give it a little extra punch? If so, X = ?
>
>
>

You can go wherever the vocal needs you to go - you just need to write
the proper bridge to get there. To understand the skill, listen to The
Beatles' Penny Lane; I think there are about a dozen key changes, and
they are pretty much seamless. A fair chunk of writing talent available,
of course...

d

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Laurence Payne
2008-07-07 20:47:05
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:58:20 +0100, Don Pearce <[email protected]>
wrote:

>You can go wherever the vocal needs you to go - you just need to write
>the proper bridge to get there. To understand the skill, listen to The
>Beatles' Penny Lane; I think there are about a dozen key changes, and
>they are pretty much seamless. A fair chunk of writing talent available,
>of course...

You don't even need a bridge - just jumping straight in can work very
well (sigh of relief from those quasi-musicians who just make up
collages of samples and "beats" :-)

Up a semitone or a tone is very standard. Up a minor 3rd (3
semitones) is a nice "warm" modulation, a trademark of the classic
American songwriters. Up a major 3rd (4 semitones) is a bright
modulation, like the sun coming in. A perfect 4th is closely related
to the original key (think the second chord of a 12-bar sequence).
Augmented 4th (6 semitones) is tricky - avoid it unless you're sure
what you're doing. Perfect 5th is a seamless (byt therefore rather
featureless) transition.

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Don Pearce
2008-07-07 21:02:56
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:58:20 +0100, Don Pearce <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> You can go wherever the vocal needs you to go - you just need to write
>> the proper bridge to get there. To understand the skill, listen to The
>> Beatles' Penny Lane; I think there are about a dozen key changes, and
>> they are pretty much seamless. A fair chunk of writing talent available,
>> of course...
>
> You don't even need a bridge - just jumping straight in can work very
> well (sigh of relief from those quasi-musicians who just make up
> collages of samples and "beats" :-)
>
> Up a semitone or a tone is very standard. Up a minor 3rd (3
> semitones) is a nice "warm" modulation, a trademark of the classic
> American songwriters. Up a major 3rd (4 semitones) is a bright
> modulation, like the sun coming in. A perfect 4th is closely related
> to the original key (think the second chord of a 12-bar sequence).
> Augmented 4th (6 semitones) is tricky - avoid it unless you're sure
> what you're doing. Perfect 5th is a seamless (byt therefore rather
> featureless) transition.

I would avoid the semitone - it has been done to death by those feeble
little boy bands. You know? First half of song sitting on bar stools,
then all stand up - and the song moves up the semitone. Just horrible.

Actually, Clapton makes it work well in Layla, but he had the good sense
to go down the semitone rather than up.

I do like the bridge though, even if it is just a single chord which is
complementary to both keys.

d

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Jos Geluk
2008-07-07 22:41:17
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Jenn
2008-07-08 07:36:25
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

In article <g4tmbo$3j4$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
"MSchmidt" <[email protected]> wrote:

> For you arrangers out there...
>
> I'm having a hard time finding the right key for a specific song I'm working
> on... the first half is smoother than the second. The second requires a
> louder voice to follow the instrumentation as the song is building to a
> climax. In this case, going louder means going higher in pitch (the voice
> sounds silly if shouted at its original pitch).
>
> Going a full octave higher halfway through the song would work, since it
> wouldn't require any key change at all... except those two extremes are a
> bit too far apart. The singer can sing them, but his voice is being strained
> in doing so.

Can he do the first part lower?

>
> Ideally, there would be a key change halfway through the song. More
> precisely, between the 1st and 2nd verses.
>
> Now, I know this has been done countless times before, even if the only
> example that comes immediately to mind is the spontaneous key change in the
> middle of the last chorus in Bon Jovi's Livin On A Prayer.
>
> I don't know how many semis that key change is, but I was wondering if there
> was any type of "standard" out there for this sort of thing. I realize it
> all depends on the song and should be decided on a case by case basis that
> can really only be determined by listening to it, but in a broader sense, is
> there somekind of unwritten and very general rule about raising a song by X
> semis halfway through it to give it a little extra punch? If so, X = ?

It's usually a good idea to modulate to a "closely related key",
generally meaning a key not more than two accidentals away in the key
signature. For example, if the first key is C major (no sharps or
flats):
G major - 1 sharp
D major - 2 sharps (raising the key 2 semis)
F major - 1 flat
Bb major - 2 flats

The other common alternative is to modulate one semi. It's a radical
key signature change (0 sharps to 7 sharps in our example), but it's
very often done (see Barry Manilow). There are various methods of doing
this. One is to use a borrowed chord (hard to explain here), another
being a "direct modulation"; simply make a sudden move to the new key.

Good luck!

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Laurence Payne
2008-07-09 00:54:30
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:36:25 -0700, Jenn
<[email protected]> wrote:

>It's usually a good idea to modulate to a "closely related key",
>generally meaning a key not more than two accidentals away in the key
>signature.

Why? The more closely related the keys, the less character has the
modulation.

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Jenn
2008-07-09 07:35:04
Re: N00b question for the arrangers in the room...

In article <[email protected]>,
Laurence Payne <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 07:36:25 -0700, Jenn
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >It's usually a good idea to modulate to a "closely related key",
> >generally meaning a key not more than two accidentals away in the key
> >signature.
>
> Why? The more closely related the keys, the less character has the
> modulation.

Well, there are a variety of reasons, including:
1. Distantly related key changes are harder to perform non-pitch
constant instruments (winds, orchestral strings, voice)
2. The listeners have been trained by tradition to be "shocked" by
distant modulations, especially those that would emphasize a tritone
relationship for example C maj to F# maj or Gb maj. Now, if the point
IS to shock, go for it!
3. More distant modulation, in some cases, eliminates the "smooth"
transitions that another poster mentioned, such as the V of V to V (of
new key) to I.

So staying to "closely related" keys gives a lot of options while
keeping those advantages. From C major:
G maj, D maj, F maj, Bb maj, a min, e min, b min, d min, g min

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