Re: Ribbon for classical guitar

Professional audio recording and studio engineering, post #46,668
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Mike Rivers
 2008-07-20 13:42:53
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
H. Khalil wrote:

> I am curious why the M160 and not the M130, given that the latter has
> a much flater frequency response, judging by the data sheet on the
> Beyer page

They're different animals. The M160 is a hypercardioid, the M130 is
bi-directional. The M130 will give you more room sound, which will make
much more difference than a small difference if frequency response on
axis. If the room sounds good you can use it to advantage. If there's a
reflection that you want to null out, you can do it with the
bi-directional, but the M160 is better for getting the direct sound of
the instrument while minimizing the sound of the room.

> The diagram of the M160 shows a bump in the high frequency range that
> scares me (a brighter mic than the CMC 641 is the least thing I want).
> Do the diagrams have any practical significance?

Not much, as long as they're relatively smooth, and then only if they're
actual measurements and not created by the marketing department based
loosely on actual measurements. What's more significant when you're
getting room sound is how the frequency response looks off axis. Beyer
mics, at the time I bought mine, more than 25 years ago, came with
actual frequency response plots.



--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
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([email protected])
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 hank alrich
 2008-07-20 08:47:18
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
H. Khalil <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 20 Jul., 06:43, [email protected] (hank alrich) wrote:
>
> > Try an M160, if you are presently recording with a single mic. This
> > might work very well for you.
>
> I am curious why the M160 and not the M130, given that the latter has
> a much flater frequency response, judging by the data sheet on the
> Beyer page
http://www.beyerdynamic.de/en/broadcast-studio-video-production/products
/microphones/studio-microphones.html
>
> The diagram of the M160 shows a bump in the high frequency range that
> scares me (a brighter mic than the CMC 641 is the least thing I want).
>
> Do the diagrams have any practical significance?
>
> Thanks!

M160 is cardioid and M130 is Fig. 8. Either might work for you.

I often select an M160 when I am dealing with instruments that can be
overly bright when mic'd closely, such as banjo, mandolin, fiddle.

If you're in Germany try both. They are both good mics. Part of this
comes down to which pattern works better in your own recording room.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Arny Krueger
 2008-07-19 22:11:29
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
"Ethan Winer" <ethanw at ethanwiner dot com> wrote in
message news:[email protected]

>> I sometimes would have liked the sound to be a tad
>> softer and warmer.

> Assuming you have an EQ, that would do the same thing for
> free.

Point being that you don't need to use a ribbon mic to get a warm sound, and
not that eq can make two mics with vastly different pickup patterns sound
the same.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 hank alrich
 2008-07-19 11:52:52
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
H. Khalil <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am recording classical guitar using a Schoeps CMC641 through the
> Metric Halo ULN2 and am pleased with the result, except that I
> sometimes would have liked the sound to be a tad softer and warmer. I
> remember to have read that a ribbon mic might be the way to go, and
> now I would like to try one.
>
> Which particular ribbon mic(s) would you recommend for classical
> guitar? Considering Beyerdynamic in particular, which of the three
> models M130, M160 and M260 would be more suitable for the instrument?

If wanting to use a single mic, the M160. If wanting stereo, either a
pair of M160's for X/Y, or one M160 and one M130 for M/S tracking.

I have used M160's for decades, and M260's (the original model, not the
new and unimproved model) for several years. Each has its uses, but in
general the M260 is a lower grade mic than the M160. It can sound
fabulous on certain voices, harmonicas, and amps.

Personally, I would audition one of Wes Dolley's AEA R84's before
purchasing anything.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Ty Ford
 2008-07-20 13:05:33
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:48:39 -0400, H. Khalil wrote
(in article
<[email protected]>):

> Hi,
>
> I am recording classical guitar using a Schoeps CMC641 through the
> Metric Halo ULN2 and am pleased with the result, except that I
> sometimes would have liked the sound to be a tad softer and warmer. I
> remember to have read that a ribbon mic might be the way to go, and
> now I would like to try one.
>
> Which particular ribbon mic(s) would you recommend for classical
> guitar? Considering Beyerdynamic in particular, which of the three
> models M130, M160 and M260 would be more suitable for the instrument?
>
> Thanks!

Dear H,

Everyone seems to have jumped to your aid, but first lets examine what you're
asking for. That Schoeps is about as neutral as it gets. Ribbon mics are NOT
neutral.

As mentioned in this string, some ribbons may even be brighter. I'm not
convinced that a different mic would get you to where you think you want to
be.

Perhaps you could post a sample of what you don't like.

1. What preamp are you using. The mating of mic and preamp make a
considerable difference.

2. What strings are you using and would others get the sound you want?

3. What does the guitar sound like? If it's making a sound you don't like,
the use of mics is of limited help if you're looking to tone down the sound.
You'll get there but it'll sound muddy.

4. Maybe you're overplaying the guitar, causing it to sound too harsh; or too
much nail, not enough tip.

Regards,

Ty Ford




--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
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Author:
Date:
Subject:
 H. Khalil
 2008-07-20 11:31:13
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
On 20 Jul., 19:05, Ty Ford <[email protected]> wrote:

> Everyone seems to have jumped to your aid, but first lets examine what you're
> asking for. That Schoeps is about as neutral as it gets. Ribbon mics are NOT
> neutral.

Dear Ty, thanks for taking the trouble to answer in such detail.

First, rest assured everything concerning guitar technique, nails,
strings etc is ok. Also, I know my present mic and preamps (ULN2) are
ok. But that's not the issue. As I mentioned, my preferred guitar has
a slight, intrinsic harshness to its sound which I hoped - based on my
limited knowledge of recording gear - could be smoothen out with a
ribbon mic. I would be happy with such mic even if it's not perfectly
neutral, provided it's not bright.

Based on this thread I decided to get the M160, and if not pleased
send it back.

Thanks everybody here for your help, I really appreciate it.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 hank alrich
 2008-07-20 22:07:12
 Re: Ribbon for classical guitar
H. Khalil <[email protected]> wrote:

> Based on this thread I decided to get the M160, and if not pleased
> send it back.

Please share your impressions with us.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam