Stop exaggerating

Professional audio recording and studio engineering, post #46,579
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 DariaSimic
 2008-07-18 08:36:06
 Stop exaggerating
The odd note in a concet with a setlist of 24 songs is not "always
out of tune," especcially if if the tour lasts over a year. Towards
the end of the tour the voice is bound to be rough.

-I only consider a note to be out of tune if it's mostly flat or
sharp
to the target note. I don't consider a note that is 30 cents flat to
be "way out of tune". STOP OVEREXAGERATING


- Pity all those people who you say are bad singers actually have
been
voted in a list of the best singers. Maybe because a lot of you
continue to state your opinion as a fact. I cannot stand Christina
Aguilira's warbling over some her songs. I'm not a fan of her music
nor of her style, that means she "can't sing". Of course she can
sing! But there are of some you who have that opinion of certain
singers. Even if the CEO of SonyBMG says what a great singer someone
is you still say, "they can't sing", "they're not the best", "singing
like this is club de rouquor"


- Sinatra, Chakha Khan Aretha and Pavorotti all slurred their pitch
and they all benefited from doing this. The problem is nowadays is
that everyone wants to sound the same. Sinatra's pitch slur, and
what
he did with it, was awesome. I remember a producer telling me this
once. He also said that Beyonce is not an RNB singer she's a pop
singer. She has strong voice and is probably one of the best pop
singers. I have asked other people about this including fans of her
music and RNB and they all say she's just a pop singer. The producer
said that she's always in tune but she is no Aretha. He said that
singing in tune is the easiest thing to do.


A woman once called up a radio station to say that she reckons Girls
Aloud sang See The Day better than Barbra Striesand because she
thinks
it sounds flat. Lulu was actually hoting it and whn she read out her
text message she paused and simply said "lets play Barbra's version
and imagine the girls in the video because they are cuite". This
spoke
volums. Yeah right, they are better singers than Streisand, cos it's
so much easier to sing with 5 voices than it is to sing with on your
own. Just because you've watched a few episodes of the x-factor it
doesn't mean you know about singing. Simon Carroll said that the
best
singer was Sinatra!


- I always consider power, tone of voice, emotion, distinctiveness
and
uniqueness to be important. Clearly you have to resemble some tune
but the people who I just mentioned do. Now Peter Gabriel used to
slurr his pitch but he could hold a note and was a fantastic singer.
Now I don;t know what T-Pain is doing, maybe sliding between the
notes.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 DariaSimic
 2008-07-18 08:39:34
 Re: Stop exaggerating
CONTINUED:

What about distinctiveness or doing a unique thing with your vocal?
For example Little Richards and Pat Boone's version of Tutti Fruity
couldn't be more different. The production on Boone's version seems
to be centred on the bland sound of his voice. He doesn't improvise
or employ different techniques in the same way Little Richard does.
On the other hand no vocal coach will approve of the way in which he
sings Tutti Fruity. He uses creaks, rumbles and vocal fry. But his
version is far supperior.


A more recent example is the original Where The Streets Have No Name
compaired to the Pet Shop Boys dire version. Niel Tennent and Chris
Lowe maybe good at what they do, but Niel has a drab voice. Bono
meanwhile, sighs, moans, screams and he allows his voice to crack. I
know which version I prefer. Many rock bands record live, U2 did on
the Joshua Tree, and they only added certain instrunmental parts to
it. This is why on the early copies of the album there were mistakes
on the end of Exit and on With Or Without You there are some mistakes
on the vocal. This does not mena that it is a rubbish vocal, still
pretty good for one take. You have to be stupid to say that it's not
a
great vocal. Besides most listeners won't even notice.


And I don't like patronising comments such as "for all it's flaws
it's
full of emotion". STOP PATRONISING!!!!!!!!


Do you think that during Elvis Las Vagas years he always sang in
tune? What about Fitzgerald? She came from a poor African American
family before Martin Luthor King. She admitted that she knew nothing
about chords she just sang. Would you bet your life that she was
always in tune? Still a fantastic singer. REM's Michael Stipe
always
sings slightly off the beat. Lilly Allen and Liam Gallagher also have
a uniqueness to their vocal. Do you think if they put Let It Be, Ruby
Tuesday or Bridge Under Troubled Water through autotune that it will
come through unaltered?


It's like those idiots who thought the Housiers sounded better than
Led Zeplin or that guy (who played guitar) who said that he didn't
rate Jimi Hendrix because he rarely played in tune. In the days of
GITT, Pro-Tools and all other trickary they use in studio's nowadays
that it hillarious. But he must be right cos after all he wasn't the
only one who said this but HIS FRIENDS SAID IT ALSO!!!! MY! They must
know more than Janis Joplin mustn't they?


I remember hearing one of Amy Winehouse old music teachers saying
that
she reminded him of what Billie Holiday would have sounded like if
her
tuning and Intonation was good. But then we get some clever so and
so
giving us a huge lecture that her intonation was poor.


Mind you I have noticed that some clever twit thought they'd post a
version of Leona Lewis' Bleeding Love autotuned. So despite the fact
she won a singing competition and that everyone else thinks she's
brilliant, there's always some dick who has to disagree.

And if I was writting a song and I wanted to put a Bflat in a B
neutral chord, I can, IT'S MY SONG!!!!!!!!!!
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 rakmanenuff
 2008-07-18 09:29:10
 Re: Stop exaggerating
On Jul 18, 4:39 pm, DariaSimic <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>

Not sure if this is a discussion or the OP just
ranting... What brought this on?

What does "slurred their pitch" mean?

That could mean anything, sharp bends like Stevie,
bending up into the note, intentionally flat notes
like in some types or Reggae, bluesy notes,
microtonal singing like in Indian music, varying
degrees of vibrato, someone not hitting the note
then correcting themselves, or someone just
being out of tune.

30 cent off would be considered OUT in most types
of popular music, but 50 Cent sounds quite good,
you can see me in da club...

It isn't possible for anyone to be "objective" about
music, it's all about reference points and opinions.
Everything's relative, people who love Leona Lewis
aren't experts on pitch and terms like "R&B" and
"pop" can be interpreted in all kinds of different
ways.

But it's usually a good idea to keep one's technique
on a certain level just to play it safe. Personally
I'm more interested in ideas than execution but
I wouldn't use that as an excuse for being sloppy.
Author:
Date:
Subject:
 Gareth Magennis
 2008-07-18 19:22:56
 Re: Stop exaggerating
"DariaSimic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:23478ef7-8c42-4e9c-979a-c3733535dbc9@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> CONTINUED:
>
> What about distinctiveness or doing a unique thing with your vocal?
> For example Little Richards and Pat Boone's version of Tutti Fruity
> couldn't be more different. The production on Boone's version seems
> to be centred on the bland sound of his voice. He doesn't improvise
> or employ different techniques in the same way Little Richard does.
> On the other hand no vocal coach will approve of the way in which he
> sings Tutti Fruity. He uses creaks, rumbles and vocal fry. But his
> version is far supperior.
>
>
> A more recent example is the original Where The Streets Have No Name
> compaired to the Pet Shop Boys dire version. Niel Tennent and Chris
> Lowe maybe good at what they do, but Niel has a drab voice. Bono
> meanwhile, sighs, moans, screams and he allows his voice to crack. I
> know which version I prefer. Many rock bands record live, U2 did on
> the Joshua Tree, and they only added certain instrunmental parts to
> it. This is why on the early copies of the album there were mistakes
> on the end of Exit and on With Or Without You there are some mistakes
> on the vocal. This does not mena that it is a rubbish vocal, still
> pretty good for one take. You have to be stupid to say that it's not
> a
> great vocal. Besides most listeners won't even notice.
>
>
> And I don't like patronising comments such as "for all it's flaws
> it's
> full of emotion". STOP PATRONISING!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Do you think that during Elvis Las Vagas years he always sang in
> tune? What about Fitzgerald? She came from a poor African American
> family before Martin Luthor King. She admitted that she knew nothing
> about chords she just sang. Would you bet your life that she was
> always in tune? Still a fantastic singer. REM's Michael Stipe
> always
> sings slightly off the beat. Lilly Allen and Liam Gallagher also have
> a uniqueness to their vocal. Do you think if they put Let It Be, Ruby
> Tuesday or Bridge Under Troubled Water through autotune that it will
> come through unaltered?
>
>



No, I'm sorry, did you see the TV broadcast of Lilly Allen at Glastonbury?
She cannot sing any more than I can. Which is worse than next door's cat.
I was acutely embarrassed. I quite like her songs and spirit, actually,
but the vocal is obviously skillfully created by someone else in the
studio.

Liam, to his credit, can recreate what he does on record live. Love him or
loathe him, he is not a fake.




Gareth.