Voltage Regulator / Noise Filter / Power Conditioner recommendations?

Dude Japan <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am looking for a couple of recommendations actually for two
>different theoretical scenarios.
>
>Scenario One: I need to power a 1,000 Watt desktop system completely
>off the circuit. To clarify; so that nothing else on the circuit
>impacts the power to the desktop system.

Honda 2KVA DC-inverter generator. It's very quiet. They make a 1KVA
version too, but you get the most for your money with the 2KVA. What
is really cool is you can chain multiple 2KVA ones in parallel and they
synch up together.

>Scenario Two: I need an economical solution (under $600) to reduce
>electrical noise in a typical home studio setup.

That depends on what the noise is and how it got there. Usually it's
easier to deal with power line problems at the source rather than at
the destination. Find out what is putting the noise on the power line,
and stop it or filter it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

> >Scenario Two: I need an economical solution (under $600) to reduce
> >electrical noise in a typical home studio setup.
>
> That depends on what the noise is and how it got there. Usually it's
> easier to deal with power line problems at the source rather than at
> the destination. Find out what is putting the noise on the power line,
> and stop it or filter it.
> --scott

Well... I'm going for a typical situation here on scenario 2. It's
just theoretical, so I can't really be specific. Just imagine that
you're walking into your neighbor's house and have to set up a DAW. If
you didn't know what you would be walking into, what would you want,
just in case?

Thanks for the info on the Honda 2KVA. I was hoping for something even
quieter, but this looks nice. Is there anything that charges a battery
and then disconnects from the power line temporarily for studio use?

Dude Japan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Scenario Two: I need an economical solution (under $600) to reduce
>> >electrical noise in a typical home studio setup.
>>
>> That depends on what the noise is and how it got there. Usually it's
>> easier to deal with power line problems at the source rather than at
>> the destination. Find out what is putting the noise on the power line,
>> and stop it or filter it.
>
>Well... I'm going for a typical situation here on scenario 2. It's
>just theoretical, so I can't really be specific. Just imagine that
>you're walking into your neighbor's house and have to set up a DAW. If
>you didn't know what you would be walking into, what would you want,
>just in case?

There is no typical scenario. That's the problem.

The real solution to most of these issues is a proper grounding scheme,
careful ground layout, and a computer with a solid power supply.

But no matter WHAT, you're going to be dependant on the building electrical
service. If the building service has a noise source on it, it will radiate
trash all over the place and it won't matter WHAT your computer has between
it and the power line because you'll still have radiated noise problems. If
the building service has a damaged or missing lightning arrestor at the
service entrance, you will have problems. There is no box that will fix
these issues.

There are boxes that will fix other issues, but for the most part they cause
different problems along with the problems they solve.

>
>Thanks for the info on the Honda 2KVA. I was hoping for something even
>quieter, but this looks nice. Is there anything that charges a battery
>and then disconnects from the power line temporarily for studio use?

You could arrange a big online UPS and run only with the UPS down if you
wanted. But to be honest, the Honda generator is pretty quiet... put it
a couple hundred feet away and you'll never know it's there.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

> There is no typical scenario. That's the problem.
>
> The real solution to most of these issues is a proper grounding scheme,
> careful ground layout, and a computer with a solid power supply.
>
> But no matter WHAT, you're going to be dependant on the building electrical
> service. If the building service has a noise source on it, it will radiate
> trash all over the place and it won't matter WHAT your computer has between
> it and the power line because you'll still have radiated noise problems. If
> the building service has a damaged or missing lightning arrestor at the
> service entrance, you will have problems. There is no box that will fix
> these issues.
>
> There are boxes that will fix other issues, but for the most part they cause
> different problems along with the problems they solve.
>

Scott,

To the best of your knowledge, do most new buildings in the U.S. have
a proper grounding scheme and good ground layout? I would say that is
the typical scenario.

Also, since you've peaked my curiosity, how much do you think
installing a lightning arrestor would cost?

Dude Japan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>To the best of your knowledge, do most new buildings in the U.S. have
>a proper grounding scheme and good ground layout? I would say that is
>the typical scenario.

It's not the power system that is the issue. It is the audio system
People patch stuff together without having any coherent grounding scheme.
They set up patchbays without carefully thinking out what needs to be done
to avoid inadvertently setting up ground loops.

Power line grounds are generally pretty lousy in the US... most buildings
just barely meet code, and nobody wants to bother running technical power
and isolated ground lines for audio gear either. But that's a secondary
issue.

>Also, since you've peaked my curiosity, how much do you think
>installing a lightning arrestor would cost?

Depends where you are. Most places the power company will install one
for free. They are big powdered-zinc MOVs which clamp the line around
2KV or so.... and they rely on a good building ground to do so. If you
just have a single ground rod on a #12 cable to the panel, you don't have
as effective a clamp as if you had a more extensive grounding system.

Once you have that, an additional gas tube clamp at the panel would not
be a bad idea either.

Beyond that point, most of your benefit comes from having big line filters
which are low-pass networks... they don't allow fast risetime pulses to
pass through them, and so they kill transient in that way. This means
big heavy boxes with big inductors in them. And people don't want to pay
for that.

There's a reason why real studios wind up costing a lot of money to build,
and power distribution is a part of that.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Dude Japan wrote:

> To the best of your knowledge, do most new buildings in the U.S. have
> a proper grounding scheme and good ground layout? I would say that is
> the typical scenario.

It's not the building grounding that's the problem (or the solution).
Building power is grounded for safety reasons, not for noise reasons. To
take care of the noise, you need to take care of the audio grounding in
your DAW. If you tie it to the building ground, you'll be reasonable
assured that it'll be electrically safe, that's all.

In your scenario of walking into your neighbor's house and setting up a
DAW, if you've pre-installed everything in a single rack (or well
designed set of racks) and taken care of grounding and shielding within
your rack, when you plug in the power cord and connect the mics, you
should have no problems. If you make half a dozen trips out to your car
to get a bunch of boxes, stack them up on a table, and start plugging
them together with random guitar cables from your basement closet,
you'll probably have some noise problems.


--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
([email protected])

> In your scenario of walking into your neighbor's house and setting up a
> DAW, if you've pre-installed everything in a single rack (or well
> designed set of racks) and taken care of grounding and shielding within
> your rack, when you plug in the power cord and connect the mics, you
> should have no problems. If you make half a dozen trips out to your car
> to get a bunch of boxes, stack them up on a table, and start plugging
> them together with random guitar cables from your basement closet,
> you'll probably have some noise problems.

Mike,

Thank you, as always, for your response. I take it that you would not
advise to invest in a voltage regulator or power conditioner unless
there is actually a noise problem?

-Clay