how to record sound underwater or water sounds?

"x" wrote ...
> *Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my friends
> lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now that I
> remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we enjoyed the
> sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped, you had to drop
> cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling ball held overhead
> from the diving board and this produced a wonderful sound and splash (it's
> best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder what it would have sounded
> like underwater. Does anyone know if such sound effects exist and how
> would you record such a sound underwater? An underwater video would be
> interesting too.

http://www.instructables.com has several articles on making
your own hydrophone (underwater microphone) or under-
water camera.

x wrote:
> *Long story short, when I was a kid we used to drop things into my
> friends lighted pool at night. We were just goofing around, but now
> that I remember the experience from 40 or so years ago, I recall we
> enjoyed the sounds and sights of the experience. One time we dropped,
> you had to drop cause throwing produced a different effect, a bowling
> ball held overhead from the diving board and this produced a wonderful
> sound and splash (it's best if the pool is completely calm). I wonder
> what it would have sounded like underwater. Does anyone know if such
> sound effects exist and how would you record such a sound underwater?
> An underwater video would be interesting too.
>
> Thanks, mr. x
> *


A small omni mic is needed (directional mics aren't directional
underwater). You also need one of those long balloons you use to make
balloon animals - in fact use two for safety. Put the mic inside. Only
put the mic far enough into the water to get sound - don't let the level
go above the neck of the balloon.

For video a sort of periscope is a good idea. Just one angled mirror at
the bottom of a sealed tube, and point the camera downwards. That way
you don't need to worry about sealing it against water.

As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally shit - a
total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
they hear in cinemas.

d

On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:54:08 +0100, Don Pearce <[email protected]>
wrote:

>A small omni mic is needed (directional mics aren't directional
>underwater).

So why not use a directional one if that's what you have?

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2008 22:54:08 +0100, Don Pearce <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> A small omni mic is needed (directional mics aren't directional
>> underwater).
>
> So why not use a directional one if that's what you have?

Because it will still have all the increased susceptibility to handling
noise of a directional mic (and it is inherent), and water movement will
cause plenty of that.

d

On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce <[email protected]> wrote:
> x wrote:

> As for what things sound like underwater - nothing like what you hear on
> films. Film sound for noises off (Foley effects) is universally shit - a
> total disgrace in fact. Play the real sounds to most theatre audiences
> and they won't actually recognise them, so used are they to the nonsense
> they hear in cinemas.
>
> d

That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
to use real sound.

I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
that took place in 1877.
The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.

At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
is flat prairie land without rock formations?
If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
the sound of it hitting was negligible.
Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
rather than obvious foley.

On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
>that took place in 1877.
>The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
>Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
>and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.
>
>At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
>ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
>is flat prairie land without rock formations?
>If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
>the sound of it hitting was negligible.
>Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
>rather than obvious foley.

Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
someone else) get told to re-record?

On Jun 7, 8:02 am, Laurence Payne <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Jun 2008 06:38:36 -0700 (PDT), Richard Kuschel
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I recorded some gunshots for a presentation of an Indian wars battle
> >that took place in 1877.
> >The weapons were original period pieces. Colt revolvers and
> >Springfield trapdoor carbines for the soldiers with Henry repeaters
> >and other assorted weapons for the Nez Perce.
>
> >At the presentation, I was asked why the bullets didn't have
> >ricochets. How is the bullet going to ricochet, when the battlefield
> >is flat prairie land without rock formations?
> >If the bullet didn't hit its target, then it landed so far away that
> >the sound of it hitting was negligible.
> >Unless the situation is a cartoon, I tend to prefer natural sound
> >rather than obvious foley.
>
> Did your employers come round to your way of thinking? Or did you (or
> someone else) get told to re-record?

Fortunately, the director was on site for all the recording. It was he
who was absolutely insistent on accurate rather than "Hollywood"
production.

We did have one little inaccuracy that was noticed by one of the
attendees at the premiere.
The situation was horses crossing a shallow stream. We had failed to
notice that the horses were shod, and Indian ponies would have been
unshod. The steel striking the rock streambed was audible.
She was the only one that noticed.

"Richard Kuschel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:746c947e-a0b6-4ead-a847-f83d09dd5c80@t12g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 6, 3:54 pm, Don Pearce <[email protected]> wrote:
>> x wrote:
>
> That's for sure. I can't believe that every fish that moves produces a
> splashing sound. and that the sound of bubbles seems to be prevalent.
> Audiences are so ingrained with incorrect sound that it is difficult
> to use real sound.
>

And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a stop, but doesn't
even nose down perceptibly.

There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's just outside
scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In one of a
waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much as though someone
had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very unnatural. In another
jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room reverberation. But
it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean and dry. Again
very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with toys. The sad
part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.

--
Earl

"Earl Kiosterud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6fx2k.3041$Xu2.595@trnddc04...
|
| And how about the invariable screeching of tires when a vehicle comes to a
stop, but doesn't
| even nose down perceptibly.
|
| There's a show on Discovery HD called Sunrise Earth International. It's
just outside
| scenes, like jungle, lake, etc, and quite nice. But the audio is odd. In
one of a
| waterfall shot in Iceland (I think), the rush of water sounded very much
as though someone
| had put a delay with feedback, giving it a motorboating sound. Very
unnatural. In another
| jungle one, the birds and frogs you heard had a great deal of large-room
reverberation. But
| it was outside. Not a wall for miles. It should have sounded very clean
and dry. Again
| very unnatural. I suspect that the audio techs were essentially kids with
toys. The sad
| part is that and no one seemed to know they were damaging the show.
|
| --
| Earl

The first time I hiked through a pine forest near the Kettle Moraine state
park in Wisconsin I was amazed at the sounds I heard as I conversed with my
hiking companion. The pine trees were the Christmas tree type ranging to 20
feet tall with branches right down to the ground planted in rows about 20
feet apart. The effect was like a very, very short reverb with exaggerated
high frequencies, very metallic sounding and very other-worldly. I've
experienced similar sound reflections in the jungle in Costa Rica. So, I
wouldn't be so sure that the recorded sounds you heard were processed.

Steve King