using MADI

David@liminal
-Scott Dorsey
-Mike Rivers
--David@liminal

Author:
Date:
Subject:

David@liminal
2008-07-11 08:11:25
using MADI

I'm researching a portable recording system for University College
Falmouth, where I teach. We have good studios but our best rooms are
not connected to them and we also have opportunities to make and
record concerts in public halls off-campus, hence the need for a good
system that can travel. The purpose of the system primarily for
acoustic music, it will be used with a pair of spaced schoeps omnis
with a jecklin disc, a range of other, good quality condenser mics.
We have access to quite a few different venues, generally with ad-hoc
spaces in which to set up a control room that can sometimes be some
distance from the recording area. Having remote controlled pres with
AD conversion seemed a good way to go and at the moment I'm looking
at the RME micstacy and the Crookwood iPre in an 8 channel
configuration. Both have MADI options. As we already have firewire
audio interfaces, I was interested in the idea of purchasing the RME
ADI-8 MADI to ADAT converter (http://www.rme-audio.de/
en_products_adi_8_qs.php) and then going into the computer via ADAT.
With the pre as the clock source, the ADI-8 clocked via MADI and
(e.g.) a MOTU traveler clocked to the AD-8 via word clock would I be
asking for problems? Another solution is to use RMEs MADIface but
this has no D/A conversion so another device would be needed to
monitor. RME aren't confident that a firewire interface could be used
simultaneous with the MADIface for monitoring so this would mean a
MADI to analogue device - they make them, as do SSL but they're really
expensive, given that we only need a stereo reference. Any
suggestions?

David

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Scott Dorsey
2008-07-11 11:28:07
Re: using MADI

David@liminal <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm researching a portable recording system for University College
>Falmouth, where I teach. We have good studios but our best rooms are
>not connected to them and we also have opportunities to make and
>record concerts in public halls off-campus, hence the need for a good
>system that can travel. The purpose of the system primarily for
>acoustic music, it will be used with a pair of spaced schoeps omnis
>with a jecklin disc, a range of other, good quality condenser mics.
>We have access to quite a few different venues, generally with ad-hoc
>spaces in which to set up a control room that can sometimes be some
>distance from the recording area. Having remote controlled pres with
>AD conversion seemed a good way to go and at the moment I'm looking
>at the RME micstacy and the Crookwood iPre in an 8 channel
>configuration. Both have MADI options. As we already have firewire
>audio interfaces, I was interested in the idea of purchasing the RME
>ADI-8 MADI to ADAT converter (http://www.rme-audio.de/
>en_products_adi_8_qs.php) and then going into the computer via ADAT.
>With the pre as the clock source, the ADI-8 clocked via MADI and
>(e.g.) a MOTU traveler clocked to the AD-8 via word clock would I be
>asking for problems? Another solution is to use RMEs MADIface but
>this has no D/A conversion so another device would be needed to
>monitor. RME aren't confident that a firewire interface could be used
>simultaneous with the MADIface for monitoring so this would mean a
>MADI to analogue device - they make them, as do SSL but they're really
>expensive, given that we only need a stereo reference. Any
>suggestions?

How many channels do you really need?

Can you just use a straight stereo output for confidence monitoring?

Why use a computer at all? Why not use a hard disk recorder with a
MADI input?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Author:
Date:
Subject:

Mike Rivers
2008-07-11 16:49:48
Re: using MADI

David@liminal wrote:

> Having remote controlled pres with
> AD conversion seemed a good way to go and at the moment I'm looking
> at the RME micstacy and the Crookwood iPre in an 8 channel
> configuration. Both have MADI options. As we already have firewire
> audio interfaces, I was interested in the idea of purchasing the RME
> ADI-8 MADI to ADAT converter and then going into the computer via ADAT.

MADI is a good idea when you're running a lot of channels, but it's kind
of a waste for only eight. Also, by converting MADI to ADAT optical,
you're putting a weaker link in the chain. TOSLink is kind of on the
flaky side, not nearly as robust a connection as MADI, Firewire, or AES/EBU.

Another thing is that, while a remote controlled preamp might be a good
idea, buying one with a built-in A/D converter locks you into using that
converter for as long as you use the preamp and doesn't give you an
upgrade path. I think that RME makes pretty good converters and it will
be a while before you decide you want to upgrade them, but you might
decide that you want a different preamp. Even though it's another box,
I'd consider separating the preamp and converter. Millenia and Aphex
have good remote controlled preamps, and there's a world full of
converters out there. You can run hundreds of feet of analog cable
without significant degradation so you can put the converter on the
recorder end of the chain if you choose. The cabling will be a bit more
bulky than a single piece of coax that you'd need for MADI, but for only
eight channels it's no big deal.

--
If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
me here:
double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
([email protected])

Author:
Date:
Subject:

David@liminal
2008-07-12 04:03:29
Re: using MADI

On Jul 11, 5:49 pm, Mike Rivers <[email protected]> wrote:
> David@liminal wrote:
> > Having remote controlled pres with
> > AD conversion seemed a good way to go and at the moment I'm looking
> > at the RME micstacy and the Crookwood iPre in an 8 channel
> > configuration. Both have MADI options. As we already have firewire
> > audio interfaces, I was interested in the idea of purchasing the RME
> > ADI-8 MADI to ADAT converter and then going into the computer via ADAT.
>
> MADI is a good idea when you're running a lot of channels, but it's kind
> of a waste for only eight. Also, by converting MADI to ADAT optical,
> you're putting a weaker link in the chain. TOSLink is kind of on the
> flaky side, not nearly as robust a connection as MADI, Firewire, or AES/EBU.
>
> Another thing is that, while a remote controlled preamp might be a good
> idea, buying one with a built-in A/D converter locks you into using that
> converter for as long as you use the preamp and doesn't give you an
> upgrade path. I think that RME makes pretty good converters and it will
> be a while before you decide you want to upgrade them, but you might
> decide that you want a different preamp. Even though it's another box,
> I'd consider separating the preamp and converter. Millenia and Aphex
> have good remote controlled preamps, and there's a world full of
> converters out there. You can run hundreds of feet of analog cable
> without significant degradation so you can put the converter on the
> recorder end of the chain if you choose. The cabling will be a bit more
> bulky than a single piece of coax that you'd need for MADI, but for only
> eight channels it's no big deal.
>
> --
> If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach
> me here:
> double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo -- I'm really Mike Rivers
> ([email protected])

Interesting you mention millenia and aphex as I think aphex has quite
a lot in common with the RME micstacy and the millenia, quite a lot in
common with the crookwood in terms of system design.

Will probably go with an 8 channel crookwood because of the sound, the
ergonomics and the expandability but go for an analog system for the
time being and add the MADI option if and when the system gets
expanded. Must confess though, if the RME MADIface had some d/a
conversion on it, I'd probably go with MADI straight away - that would
be such an elegant system

DP

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