Re: Is this consistent with a failing coolant temperature sensor?
Technical aspects of automobiles, et. al., post #21,122
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jim
2008-07-02 16:51:44 Re: Is this consistent with a failing coolant temperature sensor?
Matt wrote:
> > jim wrote: > > > > Matt wrote: > > >> 2) the oil level is about 2/3 qt. too high on the dipstick. > >> > >> I expect most of the high level is simply from overfilling, but could > >> the oil pick up that much blow-by in 300 miles at 160 F? Maybe I should > >> check the PCV valve too? > > > > If the oil is overfilled and stays overfilled I don't understand how you > > conclude that means there is excess blow-by? > > I wasn't clear. I mean maybe the full condition is all or partly due to > blow-by condensing in the oil rather than being overfilled at the last > oil change. Could the oil level rise 2/3 qt in 300 miles assuming 160 F > t-stat and a PCV problem? It sounded pretty clear to me. You said "I expect most of the high level is simply from overfilling". Obviously you don't know exactly where the oil level was after the last oil change. Trying to reconstruct where the level might have been by speculating on engine temp and pressure at this point is pure foolishness. I don't think the oil is going to rise due to condensing blow-by. Worn rings will show up as missing oil. Plugged PCV can also cause you to lose oil, but you would probably be able to see where it is going. If the engine is running extremely rich it could cause raw gas to get into the crankcase that would make the level rise. But if that was what was happening I would think you talking about other symptoms than those you have mentioned. Do you get terrible gas mileage? Is there black smoke out the exhaust? Does the engine run rough? If the only real problem you have is the oil is a little dirty then change it. Do the job yourself or check the level after someone else does it. -jim ----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups ---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Author:
Date: Subject:
Erik
2008-07-02 18:52:32 Re: Is this consistent with a failing coolant temperature sensor?
In article <1215035002_11126@isp.n>, jim <".sjedgingN0sp"@m@mwt.net>
wrote: > Matt wrote: > > > > jim wrote: > > > > > > Matt wrote: > > > > >> 2) the oil level is about 2/3 qt. too high on the dipstick. > > >> > > >> I expect most of the high level is simply from overfilling, but could > > >> the oil pick up that much blow-by in 300 miles at 160 F? Maybe I should > > >> check the PCV valve too? > > > > > > If the oil is overfilled and stays overfilled I don't understand how > > > you > > > conclude that means there is excess blow-by? > > > > I wasn't clear. I mean maybe the full condition is all or partly due to > > blow-by condensing in the oil rather than being overfilled at the last > > oil change. Could the oil level rise 2/3 qt in 300 miles assuming 160 F > > t-stat and a PCV problem? > > It sounded pretty clear to me. You said "I expect most of the high level is > simply from overfilling". Obviously you don't know exactly where the oil > level > was after the last oil change. Trying to reconstruct where the level might > have > been by speculating on engine temp and pressure at this point is pure > foolishness. > > I don't think the oil is going to rise due to condensing blow-by. Worn rings > will show up as missing oil. Plugged PCV can also cause you to lose oil, but > you > would probably be able to see where it is going. If the engine is running > extremely rich it could cause raw gas to get into the crankcase that would > make > the level rise. But if that was what was happening I would think you talking > about other symptoms than those you have mentioned. Do you get terrible gas > mileage? Is there black smoke out the exhaust? Does the engine run rough? > If the only real problem you have is the oil is a little dirty then change > it. > Do the job yourself or check the level after someone else does it. > > -jim I agree... the oil lever won't rise, unless maybe there's water leaking into the oil. Are any water globules visible on the dip stick? Does the bottom of the oil filler cap have what appears to be frothy dirty looking half and half creamer all over it? Another test for water is to (carefully) put a sample drop on a hot exhaust manifold. It should just lay down flat and smoke. Sizzling is indicative of water content. (Oil that hasn't been changed in a long time, and used for many short trips 'might' sizzle a little.) Also, do you always check the oil with the car sitting level, and after giving the oil a few minutes to drain back into the pan? The car not sitting level can induce apparent oil level fluctuations. (Way back when in the old mechanical fuel pump 'era', some pump failures could result in fuel leaking into the oil. On rare occasion you would find quite a bit.. as in many quarts.) It is conceivable a 160?F thermostat was installed in an attempt to mask some other issue/s. Good luck! Let us know what you find. Erik
Author:
Date: Subject:
Matt
2008-07-17 19:16:57 Re: Is this consistent with a failing coolant temperature sensor?
Erik wrote:
> In article <1215035002_11126@isp.n>, jim <".sjedgingN0sp"@m@mwt.net> > wrote: > >> Matt wrote: >>> jim wrote: >>>> Matt wrote: >>>>> 2) the oil level is about 2/3 qt. too high on the dipstick. >>>>> >>>>> I expect most of the high level is simply from overfilling, but could >>>>> the oil pick up that much blow-by in 300 miles at 160 F? Maybe I should >>>>> check the PCV valve too? >>>> If the oil is overfilled and stays overfilled I don't understand how >>>> you >>>> conclude that means there is excess blow-by? >>> I wasn't clear. I mean maybe the full condition is all or partly due to >>> blow-by condensing in the oil rather than being overfilled at the last >>> oil change. Could the oil level rise 2/3 qt in 300 miles assuming 160 F >>> t-stat and a PCV problem? >> >> It sounded pretty clear to me. You said "I expect most of the high level is >> simply from overfilling". Obviously you don't know exactly where the oil >> level >> was after the last oil change. Trying to reconstruct where the level might >> have >> been by speculating on engine temp and pressure at this point is pure >> foolishness. >> >> I don't think the oil is going to rise due to condensing blow-by. Worn rings >> will show up as missing oil. Plugged PCV can also cause you to lose oil, but >> you >> would probably be able to see where it is going. If the engine is running >> extremely rich it could cause raw gas to get into the crankcase that would >> make >> the level rise. But if that was what was happening I would think you talking >> about other symptoms than those you have mentioned. Do you get terrible gas >> mileage? Is there black smoke out the exhaust? Does the engine run rough? >> If the only real problem you have is the oil is a little dirty then change >> it. >> Do the job yourself or check the level after someone else does it. >> >> -jim > > I agree... the oil lever won't rise, unless maybe there's water leaking > into the oil. Are any water globules visible on the dip stick? Does the > bottom of the oil filler cap have what appears to be frothy dirty > looking half and half creamer all over it? Another test for water is to > (carefully) put a sample drop on a hot exhaust manifold. It should just > lay down flat and smoke. Sizzling is indicative of water content. (Oil > that hasn't been changed in a long time, and used for many short trips > 'might' sizzle a little.) > > Also, do you always check the oil with the car sitting level, and after > giving the oil a few minutes to drain back into the pan? The car not > sitting level can induce apparent oil level fluctuations. > > (Way back when in the old mechanical fuel pump 'era', some pump failures > could result in fuel leaking into the oil. On rare occasion you would > find quite a bit.. as in many quarts.) > > It is conceivable a 160?F thermostat was installed in an attempt to mask > some other issue/s. > > Good luck! Let us know what you find. > > Erik I dropped by the repair shop today and had the temp checked with an IR thermometer at the thermostat housing. It pretty much matched the gauge reading. Also the temp made it up to nearly 200F after idling for 5-10 minutes. I guess maybe I'd never let it idle that long. Back up at 60 mph, the temp dropped again to 160F. Maybe that's okay, but it makes me worry about sludge. As for the oil level, it seems the owner's manual is just wrong about the engine oil capacity. It seems closer to 4.3 quarts than to 5.0 quarts. Hmmm ... now that I think about it, the bottom of the oil pan is dented in noticeably---pretty sure the dent isn't 2/3 quart, though.
Author:
Date: Subject:
Scott Dorsey
2008-07-18 10:59:32 Re: Is this consistent with a failing coolant temperature sensor?
Matt <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I dropped by the repair shop today and had the temp checked with an IR >thermometer at the thermostat housing. It pretty much matched the gauge >reading. Also the temp made it up to nearly 200F after idling for 5-10 >minutes. I guess maybe I'd never let it idle that long. Back up at 60 >mph, the temp dropped again to 160F. Maybe that's okay, but it makes me >worry about sludge. While he had the IR thermometer out, did he check the radiator? If one side of the radiator is substantially hotter than the other side, you have a radiator problem. It only takes a minute when you have the tool out already. --scott -- "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." |
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