Re: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
Technical aspects of automobiles, et. al., post #21,518
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Built_Well
-Ed White --Built_Well ---Built_Well ---Ray O ----Built_Well --Nate Nagel --larry moe 'n curly ---C. E. White --EdV ---C. E. White ----Built_Well -----Nate Nagel ------Built_Well -------N8N --------N8N -------RT --------Dyno -------Ray O ------EdV -------Steve W. -------N8N --------Ed White -Hachiroku ハチロク ------Hachiroku ハチロク -------Steve W. --------Hachiroku ハチロク --------Nate Nagel --N8N -Ray O --Built_Well ---Steve W. ----Ray O -----N8N ------Built_Well -JoeSpareBedroom --Built_Well ---JoeSpareBedroom ----disston -----C. E. White ------EdV -------C. E. White -johngdole@hotmail.com --EdV ---N8N ---RT ----Dyno ----Scott Dorsey -----EdV ------C. E. White -------EdV --------Retired VIP -johngdole@hotmail.com |
Author:
Date: Subject:
C. E. White
2008-07-15 07:47:28 Re: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
"Hachiroku ハチロク" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.07.15.14.41.47.208604@e86.GTS... > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:08:50 -0700, Built_Well wrote: > >> The cylinder head cover (not to be confused with the cylinder >> head) is made of magnesium alloy for lighter weight. I think >> cylinder head cover is synonymous with "valve cover," but the >> Camry manual refers to it as the "cylinder head cover." > > Yeah, that's the valve cover... >> >> Since the manual doesn't mention what the cylinder head, itself, >> is made of, I will assume iron, but just an assumption. > > Toyotas have been using aluminum heads for as long as I can > remember. My > first Corolla, a '74, had an iron block and aluminum heads, which > worked > well for them, but was a fatal combination for certain Chevy (VEGA) > models... Actually Vegas had aluminum blocks and cast iron heads! One of the stangest combinations ever. The original Vega block was the linerless aluminum type and was die case with an open top deck. The aluminum alloy had a lot of silicon in it .The theory was that the aluminunm would wear away slightly, exposing the silicon surface, which would prevent (or at least slow down) further bore wear. The block was very light and not particulalry stiff which is why they used a cast iron cylinder head to provide the stiffness absent from the block. I suppose the test engines all worked well. Unfortunately, in the real world, things did not work so well. The whimpy blocks couldn't take any "normal" abuse. The slightest overheating would lead to rapid bore wear and significant oil consumption. Hard driving would cause block distortions which also led to rapid bore wear and significant oil consumption. Poor maintenance practices led to rapid bore wear and significant oil consumption. Etc. Essentially driving the car led to rapid bore wear and significant oil consumption. But it often was not much of a problem since rust usually ate the body away before oil consumption was too bad. Body rustwas not a problem restricted to Vegas by the way. Toyotas of the era were at least as prone to rusting away. BTW, Porsche and Mercedes use the linerless aluminum blocks that GM tried on he Vega. But even today, you don't want to overheat an engine using that technology. Ed
Author:
Date: Subject:
N8N
2008-07-15 06:16:02 Re: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
On Jul 15, 7:47 am, "C. E. White" <[email protected]>
wrote: > "Hachiroku ハチロク" <[email protected]> wrote in message > > news:pan.2008.07.15.14.41.47.208604@e86.GTS... > > > > > > > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:08:50 -0700, Built_Well wrote: > > >> The cylinder head cover (not to be confused with the cylinder > >> head) is made of magnesium alloy for lighter weight. I think > >> cylinder head cover is synonymous with "valve cover," but the > >> Camry manual refers to it as the "cylinder head cover." > > > Yeah, that's the valve cover... > > >> Since the manual doesn't mention what the cylinder head, itself, > >> is made of, I will assume iron, but just an assumption. > > > Toyotas have been using aluminum heads for as long as I can > > remember. My > > first Corolla, a '74, had an iron block and aluminum heads, which > > worked > > well for them, but was a fatal combination for certain Chevy (VEGA) > > models... > > Actually Vegas had aluminum blocks and cast iron heads! One of the > stangest combinations ever. The original Vega block was the linerless > aluminum type and was die case with an open top deck. The aluminum > alloy had a lot of silicon in it .The theory was that the aluminunm > would wear away slightly, exposing the silicon surface, which would > prevent (or at least slow down) further bore wear. The block was very > light and not particulalry stiff which is why they used a cast iron > cylinder head to provide the stiffness absent from the block. I > suppose the test engines all worked well. Unfortunately, in the real > world, things did not work so well. The whimpy blocks couldn't take > any "normal" abuse. The slightest overheating would lead to rapid bore > wear and significant oil consumption. Hard driving would cause block > distortions which also led to rapid bore wear and significant oil > consumption. Poor maintenance practices led to rapid bore wear and > significant oil consumption. Etc. Essentially driving the car led to > rapid bore wear and significant oil consumption. But it often was not > much of a problem since rust usually ate the body away before oil > consumption was too bad. Body rustwas not a problem restricted to > Vegas by the way. Toyotas of the era were at least as prone to rusting > away. > > BTW, Porsche and Mercedes use the linerless aluminum blocks that GM > tried on he Vega. But even today, you don't want to overheat an engine > using that technology. > > Ed Thanks for confirming that my memory isn't completely shot :) FWIW the all-aluminum engine in my 944 leaks more oil than it burns AFAICT. I seem to have a penchant for attracting vehicles that aren't known for gasket integrity :( Rust seems to be a common theme with cars from the mid-70s and older. The same neighbors that had the Vega also had a Volare wagon, the front fenders were rusted through in only a couple of years. My dad's Oldsmobile fared a little better, but it still had rusty fenders, possibly because of some collision repair early in its life (was sideswiped in a snowstorm on a windy country road by another driver who lost control of her car) Once the Germans started using galvanized body panels and that waxy undercoating the problems pretty much went away (my mom's Golf lasted almost 20 years in semi-rural PA before any significant corrosion showed up) I don't know about newer American cars but I would assume that they've taken similar measures. nate
Author:
Date: Subject:
Hachiroku ハチロク
2008-07-15 16:47:06 Re: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:16:02 -0700, N8N wrote:
> On Jul 15, 7:47 am, "C. E. White" <[email protected]> > wrote: >> "Hachiroku ハチロク" <[email protected]> wrote in message >> >> news:pan.2008.07.15.14.41.47.208604@e86.GTS... >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:08:50 -0700, Built_Well wrote: >> >> >> The cylinder head cover (not to be confused with the cylinder >> >> head) is made of magnesium alloy for lighter weight. I think >> >> cylinder head cover is synonymous with "valve cover," but the >> >> Camry manual refers to it as the "cylinder head cover." >> >> > Yeah, that's the valve cover... >> >> >> Since the manual doesn't mention what the cylinder head, itself, >> >> is made of, I will assume iron, but just an assumption. >> >> > Toyotas have been using aluminum heads for as long as I can >> > remember. My >> > first Corolla, a '74, had an iron block and aluminum heads, which >> > worked >> > well for them, but was a fatal combination for certain Chevy (VEGA) >> > models... >> >> Actually Vegas had aluminum blocks and cast iron heads! One of the >> stangest combinations ever. The original Vega block was the linerless >> aluminum type and was die case with an open top deck. <SNIP!> >> Ed > > Thanks for confirming that my memory isn't completely shot :) > > FWIW the all-aluminum engine in my 944 leaks more oil than it burns > AFAICT. I seem to have a penchant for attracting vehicles that aren't > known for gasket integrity :( > > Rust seems to be a common theme with cars from the mid-70s and older. > The same neighbors that had the Vega also had a Volare wagon, the > front fenders were rusted through in only a couple of years. My dad's > Oldsmobile fared a little better, but it still had rusty fenders, > possibly because of some collision repair early in its life (was > sideswiped in a snowstorm on a windy country road by another driver > who lost control of her car) Once the Germans started using > galvanized body panels and that waxy undercoating the problems pretty > much went away (my mom's Golf lasted almost 20 years in semi-rural PA > before any significant corrosion showed up) I don't know about newer > American cars but I would assume that they've taken similar measures. > > nate And, thanks to both of you for correcting me! I knew an iron block/aluminum head works, since Toyota did it for so long, but I had forgotten the reversal on the Vega. Like nate said, nice little car, but what an abortion! If chevy had gotten it right it would have been an import fighter for sure. Looks, OK handling, etc. The few who got the Cosworth version were the lucky ones!
Author:
Date: Subject:
Steve W.
2008-07-16 00:14:01 Re: Some details of the 2AZ-FE engine
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:16:02 -0700, N8N wrote: > >> On Jul 15, 7:47 am, "C. E. White" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> "Hachiroku ăăăăŻ" <[email protected]> wrote in message >>> >>> news:pan.2008.07.15.14.41.47.208604@e86.GTS... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Mon, 14 Jul 2008 20:08:50 -0700, Built_Well wrote: >>>>> The cylinder head cover (not to be confused with the cylinder >>>>> head) is made of magnesium alloy for lighter weight. I think >>>>> cylinder head cover is synonymous with "valve cover," but the >>>>> Camry manual refers to it as the "cylinder head cover." >>>> Yeah, that's the valve cover... >>>>> Since the manual doesn't mention what the cylinder head, itself, >>>>> is made of, I will assume iron, but just an assumption. >>>> Toyotas have been using aluminum heads for as long as I can >>>> remember. My >>>> first Corolla, a '74, had an iron block and aluminum heads, which >>>> worked >>>> well for them, but was a fatal combination for certain Chevy (VEGA) >>>> models... >>> Actually Vegas had aluminum blocks and cast iron heads! One of the >>> stangest combinations ever. The original Vega block was the linerless >>> aluminum type and was die case with an open top deck. > > <SNIP!> > >>> Ed >> Thanks for confirming that my memory isn't completely shot :) >> >> FWIW the all-aluminum engine in my 944 leaks more oil than it burns >> AFAICT. I seem to have a penchant for attracting vehicles that aren't >> known for gasket integrity :( >> >> Rust seems to be a common theme with cars from the mid-70s and older. >> The same neighbors that had the Vega also had a Volare wagon, the >> front fenders were rusted through in only a couple of years. My dad's >> Oldsmobile fared a little better, but it still had rusty fenders, >> possibly because of some collision repair early in its life (was >> sideswiped in a snowstorm on a windy country road by another driver >> who lost control of her car) Once the Germans started using >> galvanized body panels and that waxy undercoating the problems pretty >> much went away (my mom's Golf lasted almost 20 years in semi-rural PA >> before any significant corrosion showed up) I don't know about newer >> American cars but I would assume that they've taken similar measures. >> >> nate > > > And, thanks to both of you for correcting me! I knew an iron > block/aluminum head works, since Toyota did it for so long, but I had > forgotten the reversal on the Vega. Like nate said, nice little car, but > what an abortion! If chevy had gotten it right it would have been an > import fighter for sure. Looks, OK handling, etc. > > The few who got the Cosworth version were the lucky ones! > > Considering that the Vega was an imported design (Opel) It wasn't a bad car. Between my uncles and closer family we owned about 8 of them (and more than a couple Monzas as well). The later Durabilt engines with the steel liners held up pretty well. The front subframe to body plates is the place to look for real rot on them. If it's gone walk away unless the rest of the body is mint. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
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